What is the future of Code Charge Studio? 70

Code Charge Studio is a superb Visual Rapid Web Application Development and Web Reporting Tool produced by Yes Software (YS).

This blog is an attempt to get users talking about Code Charge Studio and it’s future. Please join in. There is the possibility that YS will ban you from their forums based on comments here so if you don’t want to identify yourself, that’s ok.  Comments are moderated and they will show as soon as I check they are not spam.

I have been a Code Charge (CC) and a Code Charge Studio (CCS) user for at least ten years. My handle on the YS forums is Garfieldus.  I have paid my support and maintenance plan every year for what I thought was a superb product with regular updates. In early February 2013 I got a reminder that my support and maintenance plan is due for renewal.  Although YS will not interact publicly with their customers and have not updated CSS since June 2012, they have no problem asking for money.  Unfortunately YS will not reply to emails I have sent to info@yessoftware.com and sales@yessoftware.com.

I attempted to contact YS some time ago and when they didn’t reply I contacted support and asked when the next update would be released. They replied….

“We hope to release a major update in October (CCS 5.1).”  (Meaning October 2012)

When that didn’t happen I asked support again and they replied…

unfortunately we do not have estimated date of the next release. But our developers are working hard on major enhancements for the most of CCS 5 features. As usually please watch announcements at http://support.yessoftware.com/updates.asp

I then asked why there was no release in October and support replied…

We don’t know the exact date. Our developers are working on major release and collecting issues fixes into the build. We will update our website as we get any news from them.

I have just clicked on the link supplied in the request for money and it works.  I think if YS was serious about CCS they would at least reply to emails from customers. The way they treat us is deplorable.  I don’t expect to see another release of CCS. I hope I’m wrong and for now I am not renewing my support and maintenance and won’t until YS stands up and tells us what their plans are for CCS.

CCS could be a superb tool if it was supported and marketed by YS properly. I will certainly miss it.

What do you think?

70 thoughts on “What is the future of Code Charge Studio?

  1. Reply Roy Baird Feb 13,2013 12:56 pm

    I too have used CCS for about 10 years and have loved the tool set. I have looked for something comparable and have found nothing close. Up until recently, I have had a good relationship with Helen and Greg in support. they always get me an answer quickly. But lately, I hear nothing from them. Their phone goes to voice mail. Someone is watching the forum because I posted a question about them closing shop and it got removed. So, at this point in time I don’t know what to think. Both versions of CCS work for me and I can get around most issues now, so I guess I will just truck on. CCS really never got the attention in the press that it should have and deserves.

    • Reply Garfieldus Feb 13,2013 10:12 pm

      Yes, I saw that post re “closing shop” and attempted to reply but was unable (I suspect the content is automatically checked on submit). I obviously had some disallowed words in my post because I was able to post a reply containing “test post” a few moments later.

      I then contacted support and asked them to investigate and next thing your thread was gone. So, I probably alerted them to your post and they deleted it. Sorry.

  2. Reply Ken Murdoch Feb 13,2013 3:07 pm

    My general feeling is that YS have been a little slow in keeping up with a fast moving IT dimension, mobile is all over us and has come leaps and bounds. CCS has been a good toolset but in reality ‘not the only game in town’, to deliver results for customers/clients etc I personally have had to broaden my horizons so as to obviate what may turn out to be a passing solution/company that just did not sustain it.
    Whatever that is m2cw

  3. Reply umar Feb 13,2013 4:50 pm

    am using code charge studio from last 6 years and its best tool i ever use.i developed major MIS system using this tool.and as far now am really happy with code charge studio. but in future release if yes software team include CMS facility like Joomla drupal as well as handle eCommerce than i think it will be at its best

  4. Reply David Crawford Feb 13,2013 8:57 pm

    I think CCS is great but that Yes make no effort to sell it. As the software business is 80% sales this is really disappointing. CCS is great and should be much more widely used. It is better than Ruby on Rail for 90% of people.

  5. Reply clahti Feb 13,2013 9:21 pm

    I am a very long time user of CCS and agree with all the above comments. I think it is really a shame that Yes did not get the momentum behind this excellent *idea* of a product and amass the sales revenue to actually perfect it’s implementation. This is not to say the product is not already good, however there are long standing bugs and they are beginning to miss the technology boat for the modern web. I am firmly embedded in the Linux and Open Source space, if Yes is going to discontinue the development of this product I am making a public plea to Open Source the code base so this product can live on. I actually went away from CCS when there was a very long period of no updates, but then CCS 5.0 came along which gave me hope. Alas again it seems that this was not quite enough to capture enough market to continue to improve the product, so I think Yes’s best bet is to release a community version so that the product lives on, getting desperately needed help from the global community to improve it. The first thing I would work on is full jquery support, google maps, get rid of the 90’s look and feel, etc.

  6. Reply Andrew Feb 13,2013 9:59 pm

    I’ve been using CCS for 10 years now – starting with the original CodeCharge progam. Generally it’s been good to use, it’s certainly rapid development, and I like its event structure which allows you to add in customisation to almost any extent. During the early years it was quite interesting following a developing product – there were regular updates and patches. Now of course that’s come to an end.

    Much as I like CCS, I guess we may have to accept that if Yes can’t shift the units – and CCS is looking a little old fashioned in the developing web and mobile scene – then we might lose our favourite program. They clearly put their resouces into making version 5 look good to attract new customers. Has it worked, I wonder?

    I really hope that there are enough of us CCS users to keep Yes & CCS in business. They don’t help their existing user base by their silence – and the PeterR breakdown was a bit of a disaster too. Occasional appearances on the forum would be appreciated – every other company nowadays is keen to interact with customers. I’d be nervous about starting a new project in CCS now – whereas another update during the second half of 2012 might have swayed me.

    In the meantime, I’ll carry on using and enjoing CCS – I’ve not really found anything else as accessible.

    Andrew

  7. Reply JA Feb 14,2013 1:22 am

    We own current V5 licenses. But, it’s impossible to continue to be comfortable with using this product for important work.

    One thing you should all know. CCS isn’t marketed – because their focus is Not selling development tools. They keep CCS Alive because they use it for their custom application development. They are not interested in growing development tool market share.

  8. Reply Karen Feb 14,2013 4:21 am

    I’ve also been using CCS (then CC) for more than 10 years and it helped me tremendously to get started in the area of web development. I must say I haven’t been keeping up to date with the developments of CCS as I have been really happy with my not-so-current version. Only recently I’ve thought about upgrading, more just to see how much it has developed and the new things we can now easily do.

    It would be sad if CCS was no longer around as I haven’t found anything that comes close. That’s why I go thru the extra trouble to run an emulation on my Mac just so I can use CCS.

    I wonder if there’s a way to find out what’s happening with the team at CCS and see how we can support them if there are any difficulties. I guess for me, the best thing to do in terms of support is to upgrade!

    Also clahti’s comment about getting Open Source to pick it up if it gets discontinued is a great idea. Tell us how to join in!

    Karen

  9. Reply Solesz Feb 14,2013 3:20 pm

    It was a long discussion before CCS5 came out.
    The same discussion.

    Why ccs is not answering?
    Why ccs is not informing?
    Why ccs is not releasing?
    etc.
    Then, after 2 years silence CCS5 rolled out. The release candidate arrived at 2011 christmas. As a bit sense of humour.

    I think in the age of mobile communication one could feel confused if forget the mobile phone to bring. It is already so deep in the human behavior, so it is hard to stand without frequent signals.

    Hopes Yessoftware just did not give frequent signal but still exists.

    If not, then it is end of a nice movie. All we have to stand up, and go to the exit.

  10. Reply Viktor Feb 14,2013 3:27 pm

    Hello, I presume this is just a blog with a ‘wish-list?

    CCS is top leader on the market by all means. As far as I know developed in Ukraine (or initially developed by the core team).

    I am happy even to pay higher price for the product given the response of support is prompt. There used to be people from YS on their forum helping or at least pointing where to search.

    Would be also nice to know their plans – like are they going to release new version? When? Roadmap for the next versions?

    Lovely product though not much work with the community.

  11. Reply enrico Feb 15,2013 11:44 am

    hello.
    I use CCS for about a year. I am comfortable in developing web applications simultaneously, although the software generates not very fast. But the result is really good and I’m happy.
    I received little of the forum, because I have made ​​small and simple applications, but I see that there are many users unhappy with the support provided.
    I also would change the software to have better support and more updates due to the rapid change of the use of the Internet, which is not only the desktop, but smartphones, tablets, etc …, but … as an alternative? what other software ‘really visual’ does what it does CCS? I used PHP Maker to version 7 … beautiful, but not really visual, does not have the advanced features of CCS!
    You, what alternative do you propose?
    greetings
    Henry

    • Reply Garfieldus Feb 15,2013 12:18 pm

      >> You, what alternative do you propose?

      I am taking a very serious look at ScriptCase right now.

  12. Reply enrico Feb 15,2013 2:29 pm

    then you leave ccs?
    I am still undecided whether to continue or change ccs.
    scriptcase I had seen a few months ago, but I had not given due interest!
    Thank you and let me know how you go with ccs and scriptcase!
    greetings
    enric

    • Reply Garfieldus Feb 15,2013 2:49 pm

      >> then you leave ccs?

      Very Likely. I have a new project starting very soon and I am nervous about starting it in CCS.

      I have an hard time dealing with YS’s lack of communication, lack of news, lack of updates. The only time they contact me is when they want money. They will not reply to emails sent to info and sales and that in itself tells a story 🙁

      Although support has always sorted me out I find that they are taking longer and longer to respond. Maybe the support staff numbers have been reduced or maybe they are very busy, I don’t know because there’s no one to tell us.

  13. Reply Lucius Feb 15,2013 7:41 pm

    Well, after some quiet time from support I received some feedback. I asked them about cleaning up a markup so it will be compatible with HTML5.

    The answer I received was positive, and it will be included in next CCS v5 update. I asked when it will be available, but received standard “we are working on it” response.

    So it’s business as usual with Yes.

    I took a look at ScriptCase looks promising, however I cannot imagine moving my current project to it. Maybe next year when my CCS license will be due again.

    I also tested HTML5 builder from Embarcadero – but it’s totally different approach. I would more likely go in direction of framework like CakePHP, to have total control, while loosing the speed.

  14. Reply enrico Feb 18,2013 1:11 pm

    scriptcase seemed heavy to learn. I believe it is linked to external tools in production server. is not it? I do not want to install external tools in my production server.
    Frameworks (eg CakePHP, etc …) have freedom of development, but also slow development.
    PHPRunner, dbqwsite and PHPMaker?
    PHPMaker I used it for small applications, but the layout is too simple and not very customizable.
    I want to see PHPRunner, looks pretty good. He did not, however, the potential of CCS.
    What do you think?
    enrico

  15. Reply Cristiano Feb 19,2013 9:42 am

    Hi guys,

    maybe the company is dead ?

  16. Reply Garfieldus Mar 12,2013 11:41 am

    This post is in response to a post on CCS forums here……

    http://forums.yessoftware.com/posts.php?post_id=120786

    and outlines my attempts to talk to Yes Software.
    =======================================
    Hello,

    I am a customer of yours and a user of CodeCharge Studio.
    I am concerned that priority support response times have increased dramatically over the last couple of years.
    I am concerned that I do not see regular and more timely fixes for CCS.
    I am concerned that there is nowhere that you interact with developers using CCS.
    Can you relieve any of my concerns please?
    Can you also tell me…. Is CCS studio being actively developed by you and what is it’s future?

    Thank you and regards,
    Gary
    ======================================

    Dear CodeCharge Studio User,

    We hope that you have enjoyed the speed and ease of developing Web applications with CodeCharge Studio. We would like to remind you that the support and maintenance on your license of CodeCharge Studio will expire on 02/16/2013.
    Your original Order# is 482506.

    We offer full year support and maintenance subscription for a nominal cost
    of $149.00. The support and maintenance plan includes technical support for the length of your subscription. Free version upgrades are also included if the support and maintenance subscription plan in continually renewed without interruption from the time of purchasing CodeCharge Studio.

    You can subscribe or renew your support and maintenance plan within 10-days at
    http://www.yessoftware.com/purchase/license_renewal.php?s_sn=0503-0664-B11A-AB0E-2D43 to avoid any interruptions in your support service.

    Please respond to this message if you have any questions.

    Thank you,

    YesSoftware, Inc.

    ======================================

    Hello,

    I have been a CC and CCS user for a long time now and I have paid a maintenance subscription every year. Some time ago I emailed you and asked what the future of CCS is and you never replied.
    Before I pay any more money to you I will ask the question again (and a couple more)…..
    What does Yes have planned for CCS?
    When will v5.1 be available?
    Is Yes a viable company?
    Why will you not interact publicly with your customers (for example on your forum)?

    Regards,
    Gary
    ======================================

    Hello,

    What is the point of me paying for something where you (the manufacturer) will not respond to emails that I (the customer) have sent.
    Please respond to this email so I at least know you are receiving it.

    Regards,
    Gary

    =====================================

    Hello,

    We always respond to all customers’ emails.

    Best regards,

    Sabina Huang
    YesSoftware, Inc.

    =====================================

    Hello,

    Shall I forward all the emails that you have not answered?

    Regards,
    Gary

    ======================================

    Hello,

    Yes please do so.

    Best regards,
    Sabina Huang
    YesSoftware, Inc.

    ======================================

    Hi Gary,

    Sorry about this, though indeed you are asking questions that we reserve a right not to answer.

    Like in most technology companies our plans are confidential, while some of our plans and dates continually change.

    CodeCharge Studio is one of the most complex products in the world (many large companies and investors don’t believe that we offer full IDE until they take a close look) and considering the complexity of our product in our 12 year history we were never able to make accurate predictions, sometimes being off by 2 years and sometimes never being able to deliver certain features we’ve planned. There is enough of vaporware advertised by other companies and never delivered or killed shortly after release, while we’re too realistic and honest to advertise things that may never get out of research lab.

    Economically speaking, our sales always decreased by 70%-80% as soon as we announce an upcoming new product version, sometimes for as long as a year when we provided Beta versions for that long. Large companies like Adobe can take losses for up to year, while for us this could simply mean closing our company. Answering your questions could make us not viable.

    And we lost count of how many times we’ve answered such questions in the past 12 years and how we’ve always regretted answering them.

    We did interact publicly with our customers in the past, but unfortunately all those employees left the company because of continual stress and “fights” with customers over what we promised or didn’t promise, or what our employees disclosed or didn’t disclose. Currently we don’t have anyone willing to interact publicly with customers, and we cannot afford to lose any more employees. We really need to focus on work, not on talks. It is also unprofessional to discuss company matters on forums, thus most companies provide strictly technical support on their forums, or they utilize MVPs who don’t have close access to management and can only discuss product features, not the company itself.

    Best regards,
    Konrad Musial
    YesSoftware, Inc.

    ========================================

    >> Sorry about this, though indeed you are asking questions that we reserve a right not to answer.

    Maybe so. But to completely ignore me is arrogant, extremely bad mannered and indicative of a company who doesn’t care about their customers. I have in the past had a very arrogant email from you and at that time I almost moved to another product. I have to say that you have not given me any hope or reassurance in your last email. I am currently evaluating ScriptCase and so far I like it. Can you please give me some good reasons to remain with CCS?

    What is your position within Yes Software?

    If you haven’t already looked, please see http://ccs.garfieldus.com

    Regards,
    Gary

    ======================================

    Hi Konrad,

    The fact that you didn’t bother to answer my last email tells its own story.
    Am I right in thinking that you are more interested in keeping staff than keeping customers?

    Regards,
    Gary

  17. Reply Garfieldus Mar 12,2013 12:18 pm

    It’s interesting to note that this thread……

    http://forums.yessoftware.com/posts.php?post_id=120786

    ….has been closed to new comments.

    IMHO Yes Software is run by a control freak.

  18. Reply Mike Mar 12,2013 7:09 pm

    The link that Gary provided pointed to my posting where I stated:

    “For more than a month I’ve tried to get a hold of someone in sales and customer support about purchasing a license. Nothing And that is from called multiple times per week (at various business hours)… Leaving messages too..

    I ran into two questions and also tried tech Support. Nothing.

    No return emails. No return phone calls.

    Before leaving my previous employer, I know they were contacted for the yrly maintenance payment…

    Have they closed up? I’ve never seen such poor sales or customer support in all my years in IT.

    Anyone else have a similar experience ? ”

    In response, the moderator locked my account and closed the thread.
    Nice huh?

    So I created a new thread to respond to the moderator’s incorrect comments…. I’m sure it will be deleted in the next 24 hrs.

    “Well thanks tech support! You won’t answer the phone but you’ll lock out my forum account and close my thread…

    And in response to the moderator’s comments of:
    [NOTE FROM MODERATOR: You wrote in previous message “also tried tech Support” while now you’re claiming that this isn’t something you would do. In fact, no emails were received from you either, while all emails are always responded to. ….]

    I emailed from my WORK account but posted under my PERSONAL account. So please go BITE ME. Why would I open a ticket to talk to someone in Sales? Or if I had a simple product (not issue) question ?

    Please be a coward and delete this post OR do the right thing and reply to the customer’s email and HELP work out the issue so the product can be purchased and supported. Isn’t that the business model you are following ?

    I want to be a customer… “

  19. Reply Mike Mar 13,2013 1:15 am

    LOL… They locked my thread but did NOT email me to resolve purchasing a license… I guess its time to look elsewhere since this is a new development project. Good Luck All!

  20. Reply Garfieldus Mar 13,2013 1:42 am

    The best of luck Mike. I have to agree with you, look elsewhere because it looks to me like CCS is finished and we’re stuck with v5.0

    It’s unbelievable that no one in YS will step up and give us an update. I love CCS but I reckon Scriptcase will get my money from now.

    They answer emails, they have a forum where they interact with their users and they have have regular updates – everything we want from YS but don’t get.

    • Reply Karen Apr 15,2013 4:57 am

      Hi Gary, do let us know how you go with Scriptcase as I’m also actively looking for an alternative, especially something that will run on Mac. At the moment, I’m running Parallels virtualisation just to use CCS but it really takes up a lot of resource and I could really do with a faster development environment. And tired of having a copy of Windows on my Mac…

      • Reply Garfieldus Apr 17,2013 11:23 am

        Hi Karen,

        I completed my trial of Scriptcase a couple of weeks ago. It wasn’t exhaustive and the trial really wasn’t long enough (they might extend it, I don’t know) but from what I saw I will not bother looking for anything else when the time comes to leave CCS. The fact that the IDE is browser based really pleased me. The size of the uploads for even a small application are huge. The learning curve for me was quite shallow and I got into it very quickly. As a learning exercise I recreated a CCS application from scratch in SC and was very pleased with it.

        As yet I have not purchased as the urgency has passed (I didn’t win the job I was after) but I expect I will in the near future.

        • Reply Karen May 13,2013 2:28 am

          Hi Gary,

          Thanks for sharing your experience with ScriptCase trial. In that time, I have also signed up for the trial but my experience was not as good. While the support was responsive, they didn’t seem to quite understand the technical questions I had just with the setting up on my mac.

          I also liked the fact that it is browser based. But as I didn’t even start creating anything on it, I couldn’t really compare. I gave up after I received sales emails twice which did not provide response after I asked further questions. I’m surprised by reading other comments here that they’ve got good support. CCS was very good at answering all the technical questions we threw at them back then. I’m not sure about now as I haven’t had to ask for a long time.

          I’m going to review other alternatives and the ones I have shortlisted are AppGini and APEEL. Anyone has any experience with these? AwareIM is just too pricey for a small developer like me.

  21. Reply Mike Mar 13,2013 1:56 pm

    Thanks! I’m also looking at xlinesoft’s ASP Runner and PHP Runner.

    Wonder if it would be helpful to have a thread for alternatives with comments…

  22. Reply ShaggyHiker Mar 13,2013 10:50 pm

    I’m a bit puzzled by the commentary on here. I think I’d like to hear a bit more about which language people are using for past CCS work. My boss convinced me to give CCS a try for a new project, and since I had a choice of languages, I chose VB. The results have been kind of shocking, as the code generated is garbage. I’ve just been looking at one of the classes and it’s pretty laughable. They created a public member variable and a property with the same name. The code won’t compile. This isn’t an isolated case, either, since I’ve had some amazing bugs in the short time I’ve been looking at this. In one case, I had to indicate the primary key for a table in a builder. The list of fields from the table did not include the field that was the primary key for that table, but it did include a random field found in a totally different table.

    This may all come down to language, though. The other day I was looking through some documentation showing how to do things in all the various supported languages. One of the VB options was invalid and would throw an exception if you tried to run it, while two others were very poorly written. However, the C# code was correct, and from looking at that, it appears that the documentation for VB was written by taking the C# and running it through a poor language translator. So perhaps that’s why I’m having such trouble with CCS 5? Maybe there isn’t really a CCS for VB, it is all C# that has been translated on the fly with a bad translator.

    I generally try not to be critical, but at this point I have found the bug count to be surprising, and the types of bugs to be rather shocking. Therefore, I’m surprised to hear all the positive reviews (which was one of the factors that caused me to purchase CCS, considering that it took me a week to get a response to questions and almost caused me to give up). Is it just a language thing?

  23. Reply Stretch Mar 18,2013 1:59 pm

    Hey folks, it’s simple business economics 101. There are many alternatives, albeit not as integrated. You can piece together projects from many many various software (often open source) products. You just need to weigh the cost of doing that, along with the cost of your time, versus the low cost of CodeCharge Studio. There simply is NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE available for $139. NONE. That’s the bargain of the industry.

    CCS is an enormously complicated application, requiring many developers of the various languages to maintain. Given the owner’s obvious paranoia with any sort of open communications, it’s quite surprising they’re still alive today. I’ve always felt they should simplify the application and focus on the money making languages – PHP and, well, PHP. Java, Perl, ColdFusion… Gimme a break! ASP/VBScript is very well documented, but soon to die. .Net in CCS is quite simply broke (as mentioned above). Couple that with the ridiculous relationship with the dead InMotion Framework, and that’s destined for the garbage heap.

    Remove the burdens to profitability, focus on your core strengths, and the sales and happiness will come. I think if Konrad came to the market with a PHP-only alternative that doesn’t put the stupid 100 page/1 connection limitation on the product, and charged double what is charged now for the PE edition (or $279), while also integrating an automatic update feature (as the rest of the world does), CCS would sell like mad crazy.

  24. Reply CaptCommonSense Mar 29,2013 12:07 am

    Dear Yessoftware,

    You should not hide behind a stone and treat customers this way. More communication is not bad if it is done correctly. Don’t tell us about new features, but don’t sit on your asses and produce versions more frequently!

    If your employees are leaving, it is not because of customer mistreatment but because of their working conditions. You are responsible for those, not us.

    The statement “CodeCharge is the most complex software in the world…” makes me laugh. Ooooh, a template-based code generator with a primitive GUI. Rocket science, I’m telling you. It is complex, right, but there are insanely more complicated software packages of all kinds, including RAD tools, such as Magic, for example.

    If you have few developers, you should obviously focus on your core customers. Why maintain ASP/ASP.net/C#/VB.net codebases when it’s obvious that you have very few customers in these markets AND that much better tools exist for these? Even Java support is doubtful for the same reasons. And who the hell still uses Coldfusion? Give me a break!

    Just have a look at the forums… there are several orders of magnitude more PHP users! You are falling behind all of your major competitors here and you are gradually losing community support.

    If you don’t want to drop ASP/ASP.net/C#/VB.net/CF support completely, don’t. Just introduce new features for PHP users more frequently and introduce them later to all the other languages (or don’t).

  25. Reply phaider Apr 2,2013 9:09 pm

    Hi all,

    i am/was working now since 10 years with Codecharge and i am still impressed, how easy and stable applications the system generates. Since “peterr” has left the forum, it is silent around the company YES.

    I agree mr. Musial, that a forum should not be a place, to talk about a company. But if we get the feeling, that any message falls into a Null Device, then we start thinking about the current situation.

    My personal experiance was, that i got response to all my emails. And that under the condition, that i have had no maintainance contract with them.

    For the daily business use, to work as webdeveloper and creating business apps and/or websites, it is to dangerous, to trust a product, where i have no the “insurance”, that it will work with my next windows version. Sorry YES.

    I have looked outside the box and have found the product AwareIm (see http://www.awareim.com). A small software company in Australia, but the best support, i have ever seen (and very enthusiastic users). You can create also applications very fast, with mobile support and at least they are very modern.

    Hope, it would help you a little bit when thinking about an alternative.

    Best regards
    Peter

  26. Reply DaveMason Apr 14,2013 7:54 pm

    I am reading this and thinking how familiar some of it is and yet…. I come from the Alpha Software comunity and forum. I have been the since about 1990.

    I am looking for a solid website development platform(not alpha). I have found a few very expensive alternatives and yes, I have almost all mentioned here like PHPRunner. I have a group of about 40 programmers ready to leave alpha and going in different directions, mostly on web developement.

    I found this and on the 20 day trial. I was concerned about the future of this environment. You are all answering those concerns.

    The closest I have seen to this is instant developer. It is VERY alive, but way more money and not as much variety.

    I will make my choice and hope all of you luck with ccs and/or your choices.

    Dave

  27. Reply zsimre Apr 16,2013 12:47 pm

    Yessoftware site and pages crashing (document section dead, new&updates show only CCS43…), and no feedback on forum from the company for comment describing this crazy situation.

  28. Reply Andy Apr 24,2013 3:16 pm

    I used CodeCharge Studio for many years and it was an amazing piece of software.
    The lack of road map and communication on the part of YesSoftware was always a huge frustration, although one can understand the reticence of developers to commit to new features within specific time frames.
    Ultimately, I decided to move my development projects to other tools in search of a lightweight, feature-rich framework with good customer support.
    I have used Scriptcase, which is excellent in terms of customer support, some great features but less flexible than CCS.
    One of the big draw backs of CCS for me was how clunky the implementation of the Editable Grid is. With hidden empty rows and bugs when it comes to ajax implementations, I got really frustrated.

    I spent some time looking at Javascript RIA tools, particularly ones that interact with php. There’s a lot out there including Sencha, KendoUI, JQGrid, JQWidgets but finally settled on KoolPHP.

    It involves a bit more handcoding in some areas but less in others. They are super lightweight, stylish, offer some really modern features and I find you can just get more done.

    What I particularly like about KoolPHP is its direct interaction with php and mysql datasources without the sometimes difficult and temperamental “data adapters” that the JQuery implementations need.

    I have written a FREE RAD tool for the KoolPHP Grid, which is the most widely used widget, which is free to download here:

    http://www.koolphptools.com

    The RAD tool allows you to quickly and flexibly create a grid with a myriad of features based on a mysql database table. From there you can edit the php yourself (or not).

    Everyone has their preference but I hope this offers some useful insights. Happy coding!

  29. Reply enrico May 16,2013 7:36 am

    Hello to all.
    How did you go?
    Which solution you adopted to develop web app?
    Have you tried the new release 5.1.0.18138?
    I am always looking for something similar to ccs, but that does not cost thousands and thousands of dollars / Euros!
    Greetings to all
    Enrico Ferretti

  30. Reply Fred May 20,2013 3:32 pm

    I also would like to know about the 18138-version that sneaked under the radar. I would guess it’s a bugfix for someone who had a specific problem. I myself have looked around a lot and I can’t find an alternative that is on the same level. It’s the combination of builders and the RAD approach that makes CCS so good. However I think that it’s because of that CCS are using JScript as Engine that they are having issues with it.
    I am actually working on my own software right now since I am getting a bit tired of what’s out there. It will use existing frameworks (probably Yii or Cakephp) and then provide some sweet database-tools and builders on top of that to make it more RAD.

  31. Reply Fred May 22,2013 9:23 am

    There is a new public release… it seems to be a beta.. but can it be good? 🙂
    http://support.yessoftware.com/updates.asp

  32. Reply phaider Jun 3,2013 9:12 pm

    Hi CCS Community,

    just stumbled over Wakanda (www.wakanda.org), look’s nice and could be a good alternative against CCS. At a glance: a web development environment with studio, webserver and database, totally programmable with javascript (client- and serverside). From the maker’s of 4th dimension. Check it out.

    peter

  33. Reply John Aug 9,2013 1:37 am

    Hi All

    First I would like to say that in all my 35 years in the software industry, I have never seen a tool as powerful as CCS (PHP only)

    I have used CCS for about 8 years and have never found anything I cannot do with it as far as application functionality is concerned.

    My issues with YesSoftware have already been pretty much stated by all of you. I additionally have issue with the fact that Yes makes us pay to get the product then we end up testing it for thsm. They have done this since version 3.

    I have tried to Support Yes and CCS by being VERY active in the forums in the past. But, as Gary mentioned, if you say something they do not like.. you are banned from the forums. In fact, I am completely unable to post there.

    Many years ago, to help support Yes, CCS, and the community, Rick Mentecky, Walter Kempees, amd I created a support site for CCS. Rick and Walter have both passed away but I continue to maintain the Community.

    If we want to keep CCS alive try and visit

    http://ccselite.com

    Hopefully I can help CCS developers there or we at least can share un-censored support for each other.

    I also provide CCS training if anyone is interested in that.

    Have fun
    John

    CCS Forum ids. bannedone jjrjr1 jjrjr2

  34. Reply T Greer Aug 22,2013 7:20 pm

    Loved codecharge 3
    version 4 was good
    Upgraded to version 5.1 and almost everything fails in one way or another.
    If it is not upgraded it works but I have dozens of apps that I now cannot alter without spending hours of debugging. Looking for another system

  35. Reply Enrico Sep 11,2013 4:32 pm

    hello to all.
    Have any of you changed the CCS software? if so what did you use?
    I absolutely MUST change CCS. I renewed my license a few days ago. Today I made ​​a series of small changes colors, true and false views, bold, etc. .. and … all custom code are commented … (//DEL) also in the pages that I have not changed! A full day of work.
    I’m almost deciding to ScriptCase, affordable cost and eye-catching screens, but the approach is completely different from CCS … 🙁
    Hello
    Enrico

    • Reply Paolo Oct 30,2013 12:23 am

      Ciao Enrico,
      io uso CCS dalla versione 2.0 e devo dire che l’ho sempre trovato entusiasmante… se non fosse per i mille bug che lo accompagnano!!!
      A volte è veramente difficile lavorare con codeCharge e anch’io ho cercato un’alternativa.
      Proprio in questi giorni sono in grandissima difficoltà a migrare dalla versione 5.0 alla 5.1 perchè non funziona più nessuno script Ajax…
      Tu sei passato a ScriptCase come dicevi negli altri post? Come ti trovi? Hai suggerimenti/consigli da darmi?
      Grazie
      Paolo

      Translated by Admin
      ——————————–
      Hello Enrico,
      I use CCS version 2.0 and I must say that I have always found it exciting … if it were not for the thousands of bugs that accompany it!

      Sometimes it is really difficult to work with CodeCharge and I also looked for an alternative.

      Just this week are in great difficulty to migrate from version 5.0 to 5.1 because it does not work any more scripts Ajax …
      You are past ScriptCase as you said in the other post? How are you? Any suggestions / advice for me?

      thanks
      Paolo

  36. Reply P Durocher Nov 8,2013 8:58 pm

    Hi everyone,

    I see CodeCharge Studio as the best and longest kept secret in town with regards to Rapid Application Development (RAD) tools on the market. Are we shy of sharing it?

    I wish every IT department and software related school would get a copy as part of their hands-on curriculum or just to migrate or consolidate legacy MSaccess application, or simply to learn how to develop new data centric web applications. I have read the reply posted from Konrad Musial and it did re-assured me, understanding better now his concerns from a company point of view.

    It would be nice that the community of licensed users turns around and ask themselves what they could do to help keep this tool up to date with technology and around in the next few years. We should be the ambassadors, not the way around. Not for 139$…

    Like the firefly series, I do not want this tool to go away. Such a true model based engineered tool deserved to growth and become the giant it should have been. I believe what it needs is fan support…

    Konrad, if you need an ambassador for your tool in Montreal area, give me a call. I will recommend and promote it heartily. I have purchased or recommended the purchase of at least 5 licenses over the last 8 years and I still feel bad because Codecharge Studio should really be selling like hotcakes, when you realize the capability integrated for such a low price.

    Last, I never took the support package, yet got valuable support for your team when I needed it. I will be signing to it shortly, my personal experience being that I got out of that tool much more than I have put in as a licensed customer. Thank to every member of the Yes Software Team, past present and future. I still believe you are sitting on a gold mine.

    my 2cw

    • Reply Giu Apr 6,2014 4:44 pm

      It would be nice that the community of licensed users turns around and ask themselves what they could do to help keep this tool up to date with technology and around in the next few years. We should be the ambassadors, not the way around. Not for 139$…

      If community are not worried about the product, this page will not exist. Product can cost 139$ or 50$ or 800$, if it’s not updated with bug fixing and improvements to modern techs, and community is Ignored, the product will die. Call it CCS or superMegaHiperWebSoft

      On this page I see a lot of comments, and anybody talks about CCS being a bad product. All comments talks about lack of communication, updates and so on…

  37. Reply Garfieldus Dec 3,2013 12:17 pm

    I receive an email every time there is a post on CodeCharge forum.

    A lot of the posts are of problems with 5.1 and concerns over YS. I have a new project starting and was nervous starting it in CCS.

    I did a trial of Scriptcase earlier this year and liked it. I got an email alerting me to 30% off Scriptcase on Black Friday.

    I bought it. Wish me luck 🙂

  38. Reply CaptPete Dec 10,2013 12:13 pm

    I too have been a long time supported of CCS (probably around 10 years or so). I have consistently upgraded and paid for the upgrades. I recently upgraded to their latest version (5.1) and all of sudden my projects started throwing errors with the menus. And these are not run time errors but generation errors. I’ve sent numerous copies of files and projects. I can even recreate it with a new project. But their customer support is horrible. It takes days to get a response and all they want is more files sent to them. Not sure how many times I can send them files and tell them I can consistently recreate it with a new project.

    I even bought a new support agreement because mine ran it when I submitted my problem ticket. They have my money but no resolution yet. This has been going on for over a month now and all of my projects are dead in the water. They even said this problem is sporadic and have seen this before. While it’s very possible it’s related to to certain installs or configurations, that doesn’t excuse the lack of support.

    I also took advantage of the ScriptCase 30% off discount and I’m in the process of learning the new software. It is different but seems in a good way. Their response to issues or problems is fast!

    Luckily I only code in PHP so this is a good fit for me. Sad to say goodbye to Yessoftware and Codecharge Studio but i can’t run my business without support from them.

  39. Reply GeorgeS Jan 28,2014 2:55 am

    I’ve been CC/CCS user from 2002.
    Below is my dialog with CCS support 2 months ago.
    ————————————

    on my page I have an Editable grid.
    2 problems:
    1. when I delete a text box control PHP page still have all references to it and I’m getting:
    Fatal error: Call to a member function SetDBValue() on a non-object in C:\_PHP\www\coaxsol\adm_prods_all.php on line 746

    2. if I insert a new text box and try to publish the page then I get a dialog about the deleted control not being found. I click “Yes”(Delete) on the dialog and then the error pops up:
    microsoft jscript runtime error Description:’null’ is null or not an object

    If I click OK button then ALL content of the page is deleted. The HTML source looks like this:

    I just re-installed the newest version of CCS a few days ago because I had the same problem with the previous version.
    ——————————–
    CCS answer:

    That issue is related to PHP engine which doesn’t recognize the native function.
    We are sorry, but as your issue is not related to our product, we won’t be able to help you. Please contact the PHP vendor or community forum, providing with these error message.

    Best Regards,
    Greg

    ————————————-

    OK, I have 2 PHP libraries installed; EasyPHP and Ampps
    Both produce the same result. I didn’t have problems like this with CCS version 4.

    It looks like Yes moved ALL developers and tech support to Artisteer because it is the money maker for the company and CCS is not being supported and developed. It has been like this for several years and I’m slowly switching more and more to hand coding and using old CCS4 just for basic DB functionality.

    I don’t think that we’ll see the revived CCS any time soon. Even if they will squizzze out CCS6 I will not buy it…

  40. Reply Steven Litka Feb 12,2014 1:44 am

    I agree that yes’s focus has been on Artisteer for a few years. I remember coming across some private blogs by Ukrainian programmers working for Yes. I’ll try to find them again and ask these guys what’s the deal with CCS.

  41. Reply PeterK Feb 20,2014 4:50 pm

    I too have been a huge supporter of CCS since it’s early inception (about 10 years now). Frankly, I think they should sell this product to a company who will manage and maintain it better.

    I’ve had a support ticket open with them for over 2 1/2 months now and still no resolution. I’ve sent them file after file after file for their analysis and still nothing. I paid for the support contact and frankly have not gotten anything out of it.

    I have downloaded and paid for a competitor product (PHP specifically) and love it. Their support is awesome and they are constantly coming out with updates/fixes/upgrades as often as they can push them out. I think I’ll stick with the new product from now on.

    • Reply Garfieldus Feb 20,2014 5:05 pm

      PeterK,

      I have also moved on. I went to ScriptCase.

      Where did you go?

      • Reply kjs Mar 24,2014 8:45 pm

        Can you please share which tool you moved to? Thanks

      • Reply PeterK Mar 25,2014 9:42 am

        I have also moved on to ScriptCase. If you code in PHP it is a superior product over CCS. Any issues (and with any product you can run into things which don’t work as expected) are fixed and code released pretty quickly. They are constantly putting in new features and fixing issues. You can tell because when changes are leased, the product lets you know it is outdated and needs to be upgraded.

        While the GUI is different from CCS, I feel it saves time and coding with the way they rolled out their product. I rate it A+.

        • Reply kjs Mar 28,2014 4:57 pm

          thanks for the info. it looks like a pretty good tool. the gui does seem to make it look better. there were some reports of a lot of bugs and inconsistent support, but in your case, it’s worked out ok for you?

          deciding between scriptcase, extjs, or just manually coding in laravel.

  42. Reply ChristianL Feb 21,2014 4:00 am

    Well, I just renewed my support contract, Yes happily takes the money. My issue is that SQLite support has been broken in CCS5 in all versions released. Yes sent a patch that got working the features I need. I made the mistake of upgrading to the current release, only to discover the patch no longer works. Repeated attempts to contact support have gone unanswered, thankfully I have one instance of 5.0 that still works properly.

    I have championed CCS for years now, it is really a crying shame this product is not marketed properly and Yes does not treat it’s long-standing customers better. If they are going to discontinue this it would be *fantastic* if they would release the source code under the GPL. Open-Sourcing this product would be the only way to resurrect this now, and I suspect the developer community would run with it hard and fast. Open call to Yes…give us support or give us the source, please please please.

  43. Reply Giu Apr 6,2014 4:15 pm

    I asked this morning on forums about the tool, because we are searching a tool for web development, and we are between CCS and Scriptcase. Now, I see this post, and the worst thing is thath I didn’t knew Artisteer (we are customers) are from yesSoftware.

    I tried some minutes CCS, and I loved how pages are builded as blocks, but as an Artisteer customer, and reading your comments, I’m not sure I can trust in this company. Maybe Scriptcase is a better option, but, sadly, don’t looks so flexible as CCS is.

    What’s you’re opinion about phpmaker and/or php runner? We are not looking for just a php generator, we are looking for a Web development tool

    • Reply Kevin Nov 3,2014 7:41 pm

      What web development tool(s) did you decide on for your business needs?

      I’ve also heard good things about PHP Maker (from past CCS users), but my concern with this product is the tight integration of the presentation layer with back-end PHP business scripting logic – CCS does a good job of allowing you to modify each of these independently.

  44. Reply Andrew Sep 13,2014 4:47 am

    The last version I used was the original Code Charge. I managed to have CC pages fully hosted in my own CMS. I never thought much of YS support or their response to customer needs. I dropped them when they adopted the rent-an-app pricing model. They were good but not that good. Anyway the internet is moving away from them at warp speed.

  45. Reply Kevin Nov 3,2014 7:32 pm

    I was very pleased with the earlier versions of CCS, even with the bugs, since the CCS team at that time were very supportive in helping customers resolve their issues.

    Open-sourcing the product is a great idea, as well as concentrating on just the PHP language.

  46. Reply T Greer Nov 11,2014 2:19 pm

    Since my post in Feb 2013 I have continued to use CodeCharge Version 5.1 Currently it is working fine and I have used it for several projects. My frustration is with the support. They have a good product that has saved me years in development time. I would like to see them continue but I am afraid they are going the way of Foxpro

  47. Reply PeterK Jan 28,2015 3:02 pm

    So it seems CCS admins have taken away my ability to update my forum posts or reply to anyone else. So I guess I’ll keep posting here instead hoping other developers find out how bad CCS really is.

    I’ve been using ScriptCase now for over 2 years and love it. Not only do they continually provide fixes and major upgrades but they also have free webinars on how to use their product. You can even go back to prior webinars and view the video. It truely is a great product!

  48. Reply John Feb 8,2015 3:56 pm

    Hi all,

    I have not been around for a while.

    Well, I think YesSoftware is probably gone for good, sadly.

    The latest Ukrainian conflict is likely to stop all development for them. It is also peculiar that extensoft.com (The Company that Konrad bought who originated Artisteer and originally based in Seattle, I believe) no longer offers support or Artisteer for that matter.

    I think I will also bite the bullet and move on to Scriptcase, based on recommendations I have seen here and other places.

    I will, however continue to use CCS5 for performing ongoing development and implementation using my CMS system written in CCS5. New projects will be using Scriptcase.

    I will continue to keep http://ccselite.com alive to support the remaining CCS Community.

    PS.
    I have considered purchasing CCS from Konrad in order to develop the product to it’s potemtial. I had heard in the past (about 4 years ago) that CCS could be had for about $3million. That is actually cheap for what CCS’s potential is. Anyone interested in jumping in?

    I will still be around if anyone wants to contact me.

    John, The RealDeal
    aka jjrjr1, jjrjr2.

  49. Reply Dunkie Jun 7,2015 9:32 am

    Garfieldus you are bang on target!

    I can’t tell you how many times I’ve clicked on that “check for update” link … 2013 to-date and no updates … it is especially frustrating because of the lack of mobile-app generation and snazzier templates/themes to take care of responsiveness.

    I have used CCS since 2003 and it hasn’t disappointed. Hellen and Greg have always been cooperative until recently when they seem to have just faded off the radar screen … it would be great if the folks at Yes Software just told us that they’ve quit production so that we cut our expectations before it is too late.

    Kudos Garfieldus for bringing the conversation all together away from the CCS forum where they often snuff out such opinions.

    Regards,
    Dunkie

  50. Reply Norbi Aug 1,2015 1:27 am

    Hi all,
    I was using CCS starting from 2002 or 2003 (when it was CodeCharge without studio yet). For years my work and then my business relied on the product. However due to many bugs and limitations at some point I started to look for alternatives. I decided not to invest even in version 4 since as far as I was concerned there was not so many improvements as I would expect, and I also decided to use jQuery which was not very well supported in CCS. Also I was frustrated when editor broke my UTF-8 code. Also the idea of events was great but CCS was rather good as a tool that let me quickly build web interface to databases. When I needed more business logic stored in classes it was not so simple to implement and use.
    So the first thing was to go away from CCS editor. I started to use Eclipse and finally I end up using Netbeans. Just generated code with CCS and all the modifications I did in netbeans. Of course version control was a must since CCS could broke the code in HTML or events files.

    Then I learned how to plug my classes into CCS logic.
    The next thing was to rewrite and simplify original CCS classes and together with my business partner I created my own libraries based on CCS concept.

    For a while I was thinking about generating the code in similar way CCS did (based on XML and XSLT transformations) but I finally gave up, since writing the code based on our libraries was fast anyway as soon as I created some basic classes and then extended them.

    Compared to CCS the code was cleaner more object oriented, since in many cases original CCS was not using OOP at all or in clumsy way.

    I created a lot of services and complex applications with CCS, learned a lot and earned a lot being able to develop eye-catching well working application in a fraction of time and money the other could. Of course today what’s generated by CCS is not eye-catching but it is just a sign of the time.

    Some to say, my company build CRM system that supports customers in processing hundreds of orders daily, documents processing system used by government institutions with databases of hundred gigabytes and so on. The core of these systems was based on CCS or CCS concept.

    I still do some stuff in PHP and occasionally in CCS (if I need to change some data in old projects) but since I focus on business critical applications having quite complex business logic and needing scaling, etc … I became JEE developer. Not so easy, but eventually I like it. The tools built in Netbeans exists that give me similar to CCS functionality in building rapidly interface. But with what’s build I am not limited to CCS events and tags (although the CCS idea of tags and templates processing is really cool) but can modify everything.

    Also, I don’t know if you feel like me that PHP is changing too quickly. Right now and supporting the PHP based apps (that grown up from CCS code) became difficult. E.g. I still exits in PHP 5.3 and having really big apps sold to many customers. It is well tested with PHP 5.3. I did some tests with later versions but faced many errors. Fixing them would require through testing … and if PHP changes too frequently it becomes a pain, expensive pain. That’s way I decided to completely change the technology.

    Today was I was just curious what is going on with CCS and YES. Nothing changed on their page for ages and found this page asking google what happened to yessoftware.

    Although CCS was not perfect I am CCS fan. It was fantastic product. I build my business around it. I regret that CCS is dead but it is sad fact.

    Best regards

    Norbert

  51. Reply John Real Jan 8,2016 10:38 pm

    Hi All

    Yes has still got me blocked from posting on the forum
    I have even created new user IDs and somehow they can still prevelt me from posting

    So here is the post I am trying to make..

    Just trying to help my young business lady.. LOL

    Have a read and help out.

    Also, if any brave soul who can still post over there, would you please post this for me??

    Thanks

    Hi all

    It has been a long time since I have been here, after YS banning me for some comments about codecharge they did not like!! LOL

    Anyway, many of you are new and do not remember me but I was very active on this board as jjrjr1, jjrjr2, and bannedone. You can search for all my posts if you are interested.

    I also developed c_c_s_e_l_i_t_e . c_o_m lol. remove underscores and spaces as YS has also even banned that name from this board due to some controversial statements made. Some of you also might remember some of or legacy members. Walter Kempees and Rick Mentecky who both have passed away. The were my partners in developing the CCSE community site.

    I am still using CodeCharge but am exclusively using CCS Version 5.1 for all new development.

    I have created and am still maintaining my CMS in CodeCharge and in fact have an update coming.
    you can look at it here: c_c_s_e_l_i_t_e . c_o_m/online_store.php?pid=38 (LOL again remove underscores)

    If for nothing else, it can demonstrate many tricks and tips for implementing advanced stuff in CCS.

    I am still developing, consulting and training in CCS and have been very busy doing that.

    HOWEVER, that is not the main reason for commenting here.

    I am looking for a favor from my friends and compadres in CCS.

    My daughter is starting a fledgling business on YouTube and I would like for her to get some encouragement. Encouragement for her would be to get views and subscribers.. LOL

    I would appreciate it if you guys would go to her channel and subscribe and like..
    That would be sooo. cool for my young 19 year old to see her numbers go up. It also will show her the power of internet communities et. al.
    Can you imaging how exited she will be if and when her views, subscription, and like counts go thru the roof. LOL

    Her youtube channel is: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoa-utOzlcx20RAtfpvtgdA

    BTW I have not told her I have asked you to do this. So please do not mention it. I would appreciate that. Give the kid a break…

    Also view her new website at http://reallyangelica.com.
    I am building that site for her using my CCS CMS.

    I know this is a shameless plug but I do home some of my old friends and hopefully new ones will help out.

    If you have a problem with this plug, please don’t rag on me.

    Any of you parents out there know what I mean… Help our kids all we can in this increasingly difficult world to grow up in.

    Cheers
    John
    😎

  52. Reply Kevin Dec 31,2016 7:39 am

    What have been your experiences with the most recent version of ScripCase.Net?
    http://www.scriptcase.net

  53. Reply CCH4CC Jan 2,2017 7:33 am

    March 18, 2016
    CodeCharge Studio 5.1 Update Available (5.1.1.18992)

    CodeCharge Studio was updated with the following changes and fixes:

    CCS 5.1 now supports PHP 7
    Fixed numerous compatibility issues with the PHP 5.5+
    Updated ODBC connector
    Updated MySQL connector

  54. Reply Craig Mar 27,2017 6:14 pm

    I’v used the ASP.Net InMotion templates in CCS 4 & 5 for many years but with the lack of updates I’ve been on the lookout for something else. I came across this and it looks pretty promising. Like CCS, it has a pretty steep learning curve but looks powerful. One shortcoming is reporting. It’s open source which means it’s free and works with the free Visual Studio Community Edition.

    http://serenity.is

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